Comics Links: Rob Granito and Scott Adams, not getting the smilies. UPDATED 3-28
on March 26th, 2011Updates at bottom of post.
You may have heard of this dude Rob Granito. He plagiarizes art, fakes his resume, makes unauthorized prints of IP he doesn’t own, slanders and libels top creators by pretending he’s their ghost artist, is accused of forging celebrity signatures on his art, and manages to weasel his way into special guest status at conventions via all of the above. It’s actually kind of funny if you aren’t directly involved. If you are, I pity you.
Via Bleeding Cool, a handy one stop shop to keep up with all the weird.
The only “official” work I could find from this guy was as a sketch card artist for Upper Deck (and the jury is out on that credit: some of his cards appear to be printed). It does not appear he has ever worked for Marvel or DC Comics, or on any of the famous comic books he claims to have drawn. If his birthdate of 1975 is correct, he would have to be a kid in high school drawing mainstream comics, which is pretty rare. If true, everyone would have heard of this guy. He claims to have ghosted an impressive list of artists from Brian Stelfreeze to George Perez.
According to Clydene Nee of the San Diego Comic Con, when they attempted to verify his professional status, no one in the DC Comics accounting department heard of him. Neither had anyone in editorial. His excuse?
His super sekrit ghost artist status!
DC and Marvel Comics do not hire ghost artists. Individual artists hire assistants, publishers don’t.
I’ve had a couple of nasty experiences with people who did minor assistant work for me, then bragged that they were my “ghost artists”, or inkers, or that they did all the heavy lifting on my technical drawing (girls can’t draw machines, apparently). These vast contributions to my catalog of work were limited entirely to cutting tone sheets, taking out the trash, packing and shipping orders, spotting blacks, and in one notable case back in 1987, doing very bad limited background inks which had to be extensively redrawn by me at a later date because the work sucked.
This is why, except for my mom, I haven’t hired an assistant in nearly 20 years. I can trust my mother not to claim she secretly writes and draws all my work for me, but I can’t trust some guy I met at a convention hoping to use me as his stepping stone.
Since Rob Granito bubbled up from the oubliette, almost every artist I know had cause to grouse about some dude they used to know who spotted blacks and spent years running around after claiming to be their inker.
If you really want to piss off an artist, claim you did creative work on their stuff when you just did minor craftsman labor. I was so happy when Cully Hamner told me this happened to him I nearly cried. Nice to know you’re not alone.
Granito takes resume inflation a step further by claiming he was assistant to artists he never met. Granito got away with this scam for more than a decade.
The uber-ire directed at him from the creative community is the primal scream of every artist who ever had to deal with one of these bottom dwellers, who from here on in will always be known to me as a Granito.
His big break as an official sketch card artist, which he has conflated into credit for drawing Iron Man and other Marvel Comics – well, OK, let’s examine this.
The sketch card art thing is not exactly a prestige gig. Take a look at Rob’s efforts:
He managed to get some of his sketch card finals rejected by the client. If you have seen some of the stuff that made it into those packs, you know how hard that is to do.
Every collector knows that there are some real gems to be found, but truth is, the trading card companies hire low rent “talent” to fill sketch card quota. You get a few from top quality artists, and then you get Rob Granito. Someone’s got to hack out those 10,000 card quotas.
Unfortunately, people like Granito conflate this minor credit into major bragging rights. Rob Granito didn’t merely draw a very bad She Hulk on an Iron Man II sketch card, he worked on Iron Man II !
By way of contrast, here’s one of my full color Marvel cards:
Pretty. I know.
I did not then conflate this credit into a run as John Byrne’s ghost artist on the X-Men way back in 1983.
Legit artists could not get space at Megacon this weekend, but Rob Granito finagled his way into featured artist status. Proving yet again that you really can fake it ’til you make it.
That is, until you get caught.
Moving right along…
Dilbert creator Scott Adams posted a bizarre screed about women, which he later deleted due to the unpleasant public reaction from his public comments.
We take for granted that men should hold doors for women, and women should be served first in restaurants. Can you even imagine that situation in reverse???…The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It’s just easier this way for everyone. You don’t argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn’t eat candy for dinner. You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tells you she’s only making 80 cents to your dollar.
In the words of James Urbaniak:
Shorter Scott Adams: I deleted my post on the emotional superiority of men because I couldn’t handle the criticism.
Just because there is a certain amount of gender-focused role-playing in society (i.e. man- holds-open-door-for-lady), that does not mean my being charmed at a moment of old fashioned gallantry should come at the cost of a lifetime of diminished income, and personal – or public – autonomy.
I will gallantly refrain from airing my personal opinions about Mr. Adams’s draughtsmanship skills.
Because, you know, a woman only digs in for the good fight on the few issues that matter to her.
Update 2-26: Ty Templeton smackdown
UPDATE: I posted this on the Rob Granito is a Fraud FB page this morning. I spent a couple of hours taking screenshots of Granito’s FB page before he blocked it last night. Here’s the one that got me:
Rob Granito did not work with Dawyne McDuffie. To imply otherwise is not just low, it’s subterranean.
UPDATE 3-28:
From Bleeding Cool, Mark Waid and Ethan Van Sciver deliver the uber-smackdown.
I spent about 8 hours tooling around taking screenshots of his stuff before he could whitewash his reputation, and now I’m really behind schedule. But I’m glad I did it anyway. Shortly after I grabbed the Dwayne McDuffie quote above, Granito removed his FB page.
I need to turn off the internet for awhile.
If you hadn’t pointed out that was She-Hulk I wouldn’t have guessed it…it looks really ugly. I wouldn’t have paid anyone for that sketch.
Just finished reading Scott Adams rant about men being treated different than women, children and handicapped. Yeah, women are treated differently, children as well, ill people too, and men as well. What’s his point? that “men” whine more if asked to do house chores?
I’ve dated guys that absolutely hate if I pay for dinner or don’t let them open the door for me or treat me in a gallantry way. >_<
That’s She-Hulk? Eek. If that one wasn’t rejected, I would hate to see what was.
I feel just as bad for the comic book characters who are getting Granito’ed. I’m sure they sit around campfires in Imagination Land telling horror stories about being Granito’ed.
“It was a dark and stormy night… and this artist had some Crayola magic markers and a blank trading card….”
damn that is a nice Phoenix XD
Scott, Scott, Scott. Whyyyyyyy.
omg Ty Templeton FTW!
@ Arlene:
Maybe Granito wrote it.
I heart Templeton.
that looks like something my 6yo would have drawn!
Wow, I would not have said She Hulk. I would have said 70′s era Orion Slave Girl, by some kid in Mrs. Hansen’s 9th grade Algebra class (during detention).
In other news, this morning I’m taking my Dogbert mug to the dumpster. It will be open casket. Goddamn you Scott Adams.
Colleen Dorran gets +1million points for using oubliette in the coolest and funniest way ever.
Kez gets -1million for spelling her last name wrong.
@Arlnee – yeah, I have a few dilbert things here. As i find them, they will be filed circularly.
@KEZ that’s okay, +5 for spelling “oubliette” right XD
Feminista is suggesting taking pictures of Dilbert merch that gets round-filed and sending them on to Scott. I got it like 15 years ago when I worked for Bank of the Wheat Thin, so no money out of my pocket for it, but still just having it on my coffee rack next to that Get Fuzzy mug I rescued from Goodwill is like suborning mutiny.
Hm…apropos for a post mentioning Scott Adams. I think the Orion Slave Girl is about his speed.
Re Scott Adams: I’m a little boggled that he would even consider arguing with a woman who states as a fact that she is making 80 cents to his dollar, let alone make a complaining warning that one should not argue with said woman about the subject. What’s he been saying to such women? “No, that’s not true. You are getting equal pay. Because 70 cents to my dollar is more than fair.” And then compare that to something as trivial as a courtesy of door holding? Yeah, that deserved a smack-down, and he should be ashamed of it.
I’m single, frequently out-and-about by myself, and I NEVER expect ANYONE to hold doors for me. So when someone does, I ALWAYS thank them. And I will catch and hold doors for others, especially when I see them wrangling difficult objects, whatever gender they might be, or age. Pfft.
Re Granito: Ethan’s gentlemanly confrontation of RG (you linked to it yesterday on Facebook) made me adore EVS (I already respected him). He did it so much more gracefully than most were inclined to do, and very smartly made RG define some of his claims. I hooted with laughter that the Calvin & Hobbes claim, under Ethan’s questioning, boiled down to “the stamp” of it…. not the postage stamp, but the cancellation stamp!! If you’ve even studied philately in even the most vague manner (that would be me, even discounting Jeopardy! research), you’d know that “artistic” cancellation stamps are exceedingly rare, and more for national occasions than for celebrating even the most popular comic strip. As in, what he’s claiming doesn’t exist.
He can’t seem to stop digging himself in deeper. I’m astonished that he’s gotten as far with his frauds as he has, because he seems even less competent a liar than Rick Olney. And that’s saying a lot. On the other hand, other than reposting blogs without permission, Olney didn’t plagerize the work of others and flat out claim it was his.
RG’s card — woo. That hurts my eyes. I shall sooth them by staring at Colleen’s Phoenix card for several minutes (nice!).
And kudos to the SDCC for actually checking credentials! I’ve always respected them for that, especially since they are so generous in what they WILL consider as a credential.
I’m disappointed. I didn’t expect that from Dilberts creator. I used to like that strip.
@ scribbler: Great post. Full agreement on all points.
It’s a shame with Scott Adams. Though the art isn’t exactly superb, as a techie and worker in an office environment, I enjoyed the humor. My officemate could be a dead ringer for Wally (not joking). Sometimes it’s a real hassle to separate the writer/artist from their work.
I think he’s a coward for not keeping his original blog post up.
Yes, that Granito ‘she-hulk’ is just horrible.
On the other hand, Colleen’s Phoenix is superb! Say..it looks like you posed for it ….I didn’t know you owned a Phoenix outfit!
Re – Scott Adams:
It is possible to enjoys someone’s work even though you don’t like or agree with them. I don’t agree with a lot of what John Byrne is reported to have said in his forum but I am not throwing out any of his art. I think Neal Adams ‘expanding earth theory’ is crackpot but I am holding on to the few pages of his art that I have, forever. I don’t agree with a lot of Bill Maher’s opinions but I think he is very funny and I enjoy his show. I used to read Scott’s blog about three years ago but I really didn’t enjoy it and stopped. I recall that while some of his posts were funny, I found others off putting. I still think Dilbert is funny.
On the other hand, it is much more enjoyable when you can appreciate the artist as much as the art. I give my support and encouragement to those artists and tend to buy more art from them. It is also the reason why I read this blog daily.
re: the update
whut.
There are just not enough middle fingers in the world to flip at Rob Granito.
It’s possible to enjoy it, yes, but it’s hard to disassociate the artist from their work. Partly because people would want to associate talent or skill with wisdom and deserving. Wanting or having people to admire is probably some remnant of our tribe-living past. Which is why we always feel so betrayed when a person we look up to in any respect turns out to be just another tosser. And it IS always sad when someone with influence comes out spouting the most mindboggling cack because you know there’s always a portion of the crowd who’ll believe them just because of their status.
I do wish he had kept the blog post up as well. At least then there would’ve been an opportunity to create intelligent debate and maybe learn enough to reconsider their views. *le sigh*
As far as Fraudster de le Fraudyperson over there goes: I was initially willing to take him for a delusional derp who just got so involved in his lie that he forgot he was lying, but as I was reading the Bleeding Cool comments and looking at his image gallery, it got pretty obvious that he has had to invest in some specific equipment to recreate some of the images he claims to have made from scratch (as in some art quality printers that cost a pretty penny) and put some effort into faking their process. You don’t do that if you’re just sort of slow. You do that when you’re methodically crapping on people from a great height. So no sympathy for him anymore. He deserves all the lawsuits he has coming.
“Fraudster de le Fraudyperson”
I can’t respond clearly to Cottonball, because I am laughing so hard I have to go pee.
Oh, and BTW: there’s always Googlecache…
Re: Rob Granito – I’ve noted that he’s selling some images that he’s traced from various Norm Breyfogle covers and commissions (mainly Joke related). For the record, Norm has used only one assistant in his entire career – that being his brother Kevin. And when Norm has used Kevin, he’s always credited Kevin. Thus if that idiot Rob claims that he was Norm’s ‘ghost’ artist, well it just ain’t so.
Danny
Thanks for that info.
You often see this kind of wholesale plagiarism in fan art, and I think every early SF convention I attended had art shows littered with the exact same Star Trek portraits done by 24 different people. But I’ve never seen this sort of plagiarism and resume conflation taken to this extreme.
It’s like some movie extra, who may actually have been in the general vicinity of the director at some point claiming they are the star of the film, and best buds with the producer besides.
While it’s good that Granito is being rightfully vilified, I wonder where the outrage is over those artists that are actually working for the various publishers that swipe on a frequent basis from either other artists or from porno movies?
It does help keep alive the mentality that art theft can lead to a career at a major publisher and that it’s an accepted practice.
If you’re thinking there has been no outrage at massive swiping on the part of a few professionals, you would be wrong. I’ve seen some epic, brutal threads on a few artists who have not honored their privileged position.
And frankly, there have been some pretty hefty behind the scenes legal settlements. I have to wonder how some people still get hired. I know one artist who was banned from working for a major publisher for a decade for swiping a celebrity photo for a Marvel cover. I’d say he got punished pretty well.
And BTW, when you swipe a Marvel Comics cover, legally the injured party is Marvel, not the artist. If a Marvel artist swipes a Marvel job for Marvel, there’s no legal problem there, because Marvel is the author for all purposes of copyright law.
I don’t get angry every time someone swipes me, and I think I recognize the spirit of homage art in which it is intended. I am not running around Deviant Art taking down swipes of my stuff. In fact, I’ve linked to them to say hi to the fan artists for appreciating my work.
That’s not what this guy is doing. He’s fraudulently representing himself to the public as an official company artist, lying about his credits. He is not the artist of Calvin and Hobbes. Why is that on his resume?
Funny story: years ago, I was having trouble scaring up work, so my agent Spencer Beck took me on the rounds in New York. We ended up at the Marvel offices, and while we were there presenting to an editor, my agent yelped “Hey, that’s your art!” And there was the figure from the cover of A Distant Soil 29 on Marvel cover pencils just turned in. Major artist, too.
The cover painting of A Distant Soil 29 was right there in my portfolio. I pulled it out, and I thought the editor was going to faint. He apologized profusely, and I just laughed it off. The swipe was only a portion of the cover, and I was just kind of surprised that particular artist read my work. It didn’t bother me and I brushed it off.
It’s one thing to reference someone else’s work: it’s another thing to make an entire career out of plagiarism. I considered the minor swipe use of reference, and I didn’t care.
If I found that the same artist was going over every shot from A Distant Soil and my catalog was represented in every book he did, I’d be pissed. But one swipe: no big deal. Everybody is inspired by someone at some point, and one swipe does not make a plagiarist.
Mr. Granito is a plagiarist. And he’s made a career out of it. Worse yet, he is ripping fans. Those Calvin and Hobbes prints are something he has no right to sell.
just an observation, Scott Adams should be thanking deities that his own rectal haberdashery got outed this week so that he got buried under the Rob Granito avalanche.
It just seems like certain artists keep doing it habitually so thus a perception that there are few repercussions.
The only professional artists I know who got called out on major swipes are artists of genuine ability. I have no idea why they did those foolish things to the extent they did. They are better than that.
We’ve all swiped. I swipe. I can’t very well fly to India and take a pic of the Taj Mahal if I need to draw it. I can’t go through my catalog of photos of Hussein if I need to draw him. I have to look at someone else’s work for that.
If my final use is minor enough and transformative enough, there should be no problem. But if it’s obvious to the casual observer, you’ve gone too far. And since I don’t have a history as a swiper, I think it is a good bet that my reputation for not taking advantage of other artists is clean.
If I really, REALLY need a photo, then I have to contact the source and ask or pay for a license.
And some artists have a swiper rep unfairly. There are photo services that sell modeling shots. Artists subscribe to them and I’m sure some artists end up using the same sources. If you see similarities in two pieces, they may have referenced the same source.
The fee you pay to the service covers commercial use. This is perfectly legal. Not every artist has the resources to afford models and a photography studio, so it’s a great way to pool resources. But you run the risk of having your art look like everyone else’s if you are too slavish to the reference.
If two pieces can be compared line for line in Photoshop, someone is tracing.
I did briefly try the trick of referencing movie stills. Just hated it. I think my art came out looking very stiff. Don’t know why anyone does it. Kills the line in the final art. Blech.
True. As Wally Wood once said: “Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace and never trace anything you can cut out and paste in.” Which is a shame because he was a talented artist.
A friend of mine showed me a picture of Granito next to a painting of “his”, with streaks of paint over his face, yet none on his hands or brush. The picture showed how the image was basically glued onto a canvas and then he put a few splotches of paint on to look like he did it. Pathetic.
There is an entire chapter in the Famous Artists Course that teaches nothing but how to use reference and keep a swipe file. My original morgue file (AKA swipe file) was set up to model that advice. I still have all my old files, and even have portions of the file contents from deceased professionals who left me their studio contents. Some of my references and art supplies are more than a century old!
The book “The Red Rose Girls” shows how the famous illustrators of the Golden Age kept meticulous reference files and hired photographers: but kept it all a secret, as it was considered low rent to use photos as reference for art! The illustrators all insisted they worked from life every time, but it wasn’t true.
People have very odd ideas about how artists work, and think we all have to have photographic memories for every picture. That’s nonsense.
If Da Vinci had a Polaroid, I bet he’d have used it.
I’ll tell you this much: one notorious swiper, on finding out I had a lot of 30+ year old reference from Japan, begged me to give it to him.
Wish on a star, pal.
One of the more famous swipes :
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/02/28/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-144/
It’s certainly understandable to use references for buildings, and city/landscapes. I think some of my gripe comes from the difference between “oh, I can see that Artist-X was an influence” to “Hey, didn’t Artist-X do that originally?”
One of the famous swipes:
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/02/28/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-144/
I had a great idea for a t-shirt but I’m too lazy:
“Rob Granito is a Todd Goldman. Throw rocks at him!’
I spent entirely too much time on the FB page today, and this guy is off the hook. Someone posted a very nice Superman drawing by Al Rio, and the absolutely identical Granito next to it. It has obviously been darkened in Photoshop and printed, then color added. It is a line for line identical pencil sketch. Except Rio’s signature has been Photoshopped out. Alas, Granito left the top loop of the big A in the picture: you can see it at the bottom of Superman’s S.
So, one of Al Rio’s homies called up Granito, and Granito boldly claimed he never even heard of Al Rio. Except there must be two dozen more examples of Granito’s plagiarisms of Rio right out there in front of God and everybody on the website. And Granito’s too stupid to remove the entire signature of the original artist he claims he never heard of.
Behold, the river of denial floods all Egypt.
yeah, and someone’s gonna tear him Anubis
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
“Off the hook” …. yeah, that phrase now goes in two opposite directions, and I initially read it in one direction (ie, he’s been given a graceful escape), when after reading the rest of the paragraph you went in the other direction (ie, he’s so nutso, he’s disconnected).
Whew!
I thought your determination went wobbly there for a moment.
I don’t know how this guy expects to continue on. This Megacon weekend was just the start of it. He’s not going to be getting that many more free passes after this.
@ Miki: Cool find! That looks like a right of publicity complaint, instead of a copyright complaint. Most people would think it was cool to be on the cover of Doctor Strange. I know I would. But I see Amy Grant’s point.
Sorry about the delay, my spam filter tried to eat you.
You know, just for kicks, I decided to see if I could draw a better pic than Granito with my eyes closed.
Yes.
I remember the Amy Grant/Dr Strange thing! *old reader is old
*
@Colleen – drawing better than Rob with your eyes closed.
Come on, even I can do that!
Colleen, I was considering doing the “I can draw better than RG by X” with my left hand. Because I had one art teacher that really, really grilled us on doing contour drawings without looking at the paper – so “with eyes closed” was a bit too easy. But I haven’t practiced with my left hand – so my drawing as such might actually look a little bit like that She-Hulk of his.
I once did a painting at Otakon from start to finish in one hour with both hands at the same time in front of an audience of 200 people. And it looked nothing like a Granito.
And I swear this is true: the night before, I had been bitten on my right arm by a brown recluse spider. The paramedic gave me a nitroglycerin patch as treatment, and during the art demo, I began to shake. I had to sort of wedge my arm to keep it steady. And I still did a better job on an original painting than Granito.
I am sure someone reading this will verify this story.
Seriously, I was doing better art than that dude when I was five years old.
How do we know that post was really by Scott Adams?
@farbeitfromme: http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/post_deleted/
also he’s now calling “social experiment.” Cool story bro.
These post updates are made of win. Please do not ever turn off your internets, because I come here for the latest
FEED THE ADDICTION.
LOL! Well, I am having to be a better girl about how much time I spend online. Really got distracted and didn’t ship some things and drawing was unsatisfactory last week.
Y’know, I once posted to a writer who hadn’t updated in a few months that I hoped she was well, and that she hadn’t died or anything.
Some other readers of hers decided that this was passive aggressive trolling, and that I was threatening the woman.
“I hope you are well, and that you haven’t died!” As the son of a friend of mine had suddenly been diagnosed with cancer and died a month later, I meant exactly what I said. I told them it was meant as said, but apparently in their perception what it really said was “Hey, you lazy bitch, start writing again! You’d better be dead if you aren’t writing!”
So, quite frankly, now that I’ve read the original Scott Adam’s post someone put up (presumably), and now that I’ve been through a week in Japan of seven-hour cycles of “OH MY GOD THE NUCLEAR REACTORS ARE MELTING DOWN THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT IS LYING YOU’RE ALL GOING TO DIE GET OUT OF JAPAN!!” I think the problem with his post is more a matter of the people who read it.
I just caught up on all this, and I think my head’s about to explode. There is not enough coffee in the world this morning, to make this comprehensible.
On swiping — you know, the one time I was ever on a panel at SDCC, it was as part of a demonstration on how to properly use photo reference to create an original image. Funnily enough, lightboxing and projecting weren’t demonstrated techniques.
On Scott Adams’ screed — He’s mangling Warren Farrell’s research on pay disparities between men and women, and adding resentment to the mix.
Hey, I swipe all the time. But I always try to make the work my own, just using elements, and I always reference my sources. In my blog comments, I’ll say stuff like, “this panel is influenced by this Whelan painting, look it up, it’s good.”
Like Steve Rude said, “I don’t care if you’re the most blatant amateur in the world, if you do something I like, I’ll copy it… I’ll copy something to see if I can make it better (steve rude sketchbook, p. 47).”
I think that’s different than Granito’s approach, which appears to be verbatim rendering without credit or inspiration to take it further.
I hope that makes sense. These nuances can be hard to articulate.
On the issue of Scoot Adams: since his strip is largely about a survival based hierarchy of arbitrary perceived power, of course he’d be a sexist.
SCOTT Adams, not Scoot. Possibly a bit of wish fulfillment there. Never much cared for Dilbert anyway.
A commenter on another site brought up a good statement about how though it is good that so many within the comic community are outraged over this, very few seemed to have this level of fervor over the HTMLComics pirate site and other illegal downloading.
Art fraud is unacceptable but piracy is an accepted practice?
Looks like Mark Waid and Ethan Van Sciver delivered the coup de grâce.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/28/rob-granitos-megacon-adventure-with-mark-waid/
Every artist makes studies of the work of other artists. Almost every artist I know swipes. If the artist brings nothing of themselves to the new work and merely copies, sorry kids, that’s a no-no.
And I had to just TURN IT OFF when some goofball elsewhere started ragging on Alex Ross for using photo reference.
JESUS H Christ on a totem pole, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHAT PLAGIARISM MEANS? Did IQ’s drop precipitously when they invented the internet, or were all of these stupid people just out there hanging about unnoticed before they learned to type and display these wanton acts of idiocy?
No one CARES if you use your own photo reference. For God’s sake, you’re supposed to! Why do you think REAL illustrators pay thousands of bucks for models, photographers, and costumes?
I flew to NYC and took hundreds of reference photos for my new book, and spent I don’t know how many hours studying the National Archives, because for some bizarre reason, I seem incapable of drawing locations I’ve never visited and time periods I’ve never seen without looking at REFERENCE. I mean, it’s like a handicap or something.
The REAL professional puts in the time, money, research, skill, ALL THE INVESTMENT, and the plagiarist skims off that effort.
@Jeremy. Why yes. That also interests me. Why, when I discussed bad bad piracy a few months ago, people threatened to kill me.
While I decry any threats against the man or his family, and I do wish people would stick to the matter at hand and ditch the circus act, I don’t feel the need to make a public spectacle of my capacity for mercy and understanding by boo-hooing over the public tongue lashing delivered to a crook who got caught.
The real victims here are the fans who got conned into buying expensive prints and paintings based on their contextual relationship to TV shows and comics they enjoy, only to find out the reputation of the artist who sold them the work is a lie.
I’d be pissed.
Not many, but a few, people think that a few of the artists were being “too angry”. Personal shots at family is over the line, but when someone is saying that they are your “ghost artist” – implying you don’t put in the work – I can see why someone would wish a rain of fire on this fraud.
I remember the brown recluse, that was about the time that I was doing the rounds at anime cons as a VA. A lot of us were worried about you, Colleen. But yes, true story.
Also, thanks for sticking up for photo reference as research. Too many people lump it in with “taking the easy way out,” and oddly, I never get to see the artwork of these whiners.
Because Alex Ross’s stuff is just gorgeous, and I make no apologies for gushing over it.
I think it is exactly that. Before everyone had access, the mouth breathers were out there, but you never heard from them. Much like overall design was better before every twit thought that DTP meant they could do their own brochures (Comic Sans is fun!).
On the plus side, I think the median level of conversation will eventually rise just from people being exposed to grammar and spelling, much like the destruction of 30-year-old fashion trends that you used to see in small, isolated towns. Until then, we’re buggered.
@ Jeremy: absolutely. That dude hurt artist’s reputations, and someone who knows him posted that he would often rag on pros like Neil Adams and George Perez, claiming they were “assholes”. He’s never had anything to do with these people.
My old buddy Ken Talton reminded me of something this week: that in fandom, information is currency. I used to wonder why people lied about pros so much: claiming a pro was mean to them, had slept with them, stolen their art.
For example, I was at a major show where I spent a long night in the hotel room of an actor and other guests having a grand old time. Talking. All night talking, laughing, eating candy. Apparently, when you are a handsome young actor, fans give you scads of candy. And the actor doled it out to the gang in the hotel. I went home with a full suitcase of candy. It was awesome.
Nobody buys me that much candy, and I’m a girl.
Anyway, I was in the elevator with some fans, and one of them was twittering on at great length about how she had spent all night long having sex with one of those actors. And I know for a fact that she hadn’t, because I had spent all night long NOT having sex with one of those actors in that hotel room until about 5 AM.
People will say anything, do anything for attention in fandom, and being an “insider” getting the scoop – boy, howdy, you are IT.
People will lie like rugs to be IT.
I don’t get it Michael, photo reference is a tool every illustrator uses and needs. These people actually think using a photo is the same as this Granito dude’s plagiarism. Plagiarism is about attribution, not about whether or not you looked at a picture when you drew it.
Alex Ross can use as many of his own photos as he likes, and I don’t care if he traces them or not. The work is original to him. And I happen to know he doesn’t trace or need to trace. The guy has mad drawing skills.
Oh, and thanks. That spider bite scared the crap out of me.
And Scott: LMAO!!!!
In a hotel room, laughing and talking and having fun with a group of people and Famous Actor? And you say you’re not social…
Jim Byrnes kissed me on the cheek at a Highlander Convention over 13 years ago! I never washed that cheek again (joke).
@MichaelBrady: they lured her with candy.
On the reference photos: I have to admit for the sake of argument that I didn’t know people used reference photos for comic books or art in general until a some years ago (I think it was the Alex Ross ref photos at the back of Kingdom Come that finally clued me in). For whatever reason it just never came up that people would use photos or other images, specifically of people but other things too, to create all that wonderful art I always admired. I knew everyone recommended life drawing and that people would always talk about “doing research” when something would have to be historically or geographically correct, but from presumably the same somewhere where it got to other people’s heads it always stuck in mine that “real” art came purely from inside your head and using ref images was “cheating”. So I’m putting all the hooha over using refs down to that great big mystery that people like to uphold between themselves and “real artists”. It’s simple ignorance. It’s not malevolent, just something people who don’t do art or don’t do art as a profession don’t really have to consider and it’s not something that’s taught in regular schools. I always felt kind of a fraud doing art when I had to create it in my head first before swiping it from there; like I wasn’t really doing it right but just copying.
I’d imagine it’s the same kind of situation when some authors say they feel like they’re giant frauds for “not doing it right” because their technique is different from some other author’s who does meticulous fact and character sheets and write everything in order and other such things.
“I did not then conflate this credit into a run as John Byrne’s ghost artist on the X-Men way back in 1983.”
You ignore an apparently perfectly viable cash cow. And whose fault is that?
(I mean, beside the fault of your ethics)
@ Mike: Hah! I am very social in small groups. If you see me in a crowd, watch me gravitate toward the edge of the room.
@Cottonball: I use reference when I need to, but for the record, virtually every panel in A Distant Soil was drawn without it.
Most of Gone to Amerikay was drawn with it.
I use it or don’t use it depending on what effect I am going for. And if you look at the sample page of Gone to Amerikay posted here:
http://adistantsoil.com/2011/03/16/gone-to-amerikay-exclusive-st-patricks-day-preview/
You can see why…
Does anyone really think I have the total knowledge of world history, right down to ships an Irish immigrant would have sailed to Amerikay on in 1870, stored away in my little brain?
Hell, no, I spent more than two weeks just researching ships for this thing, and an extremely frustrating two weeks attempting (unsuccessfully) to build a digital model so I could be sure to have it perfectly drawn from every angle in every shot.
And then I told Sergio Aragones, and he said, “Why didn’t you just buy a model?”
And then I wanted to kill myself.
“I seem incapable of drawing locations I’ve never visited and time periods I’ve never seen without looking at REFERENCE. ”
This is why you must invest in a time machine.
…Sob! I am such a fool…
I hate when I make all sorts of effort on something and someone has an instant solution that seems obvious in retrospect.
I’m sorry to laugh at you, Colleen, but I just ADORE Sergio’s comment (and your reaction)!
Of course, I adore Sergio himself, so that might not mean anything.
I immodestly suggest that it takes a very secure woman to publicly admit how rocking stupid she can be while thinking a problem through too much.
Oh, I agree that you are secure enough in your ability to admit to the blind spots.
I’m not sure it would have occured to me to try and find a ship model either. But once said, it’s so obvious I may never forget it (if only because of the strength of this memorable anecdote). I work out of my head, or with minimal photo reference so much that the advantages of physical models doesn’t always register with me.
Okay, that’s pretty damn funny. Though, I can’t say much, as I went down to the HMS Surprise a while back to shoot a ton of reference I needed. The kids in my neighborhood are no longer surprised when they find me out on the street, shooting friends in costumes, or getting a friend to shoot me in a costume. This does nothing for my reputation as the neighborhood eccentric.
Sorry to be out of touch, my internet connection has been terrible this week.
I’m always taking reference photos. I have many thousands and never use 99 out of 100.
Those snapped more than a couple of years ago are in disordered piles, or stuffed in old fashioned card files bought at an antique shop.
Now I load snaps off my digital camera directly into a reference file on my computer. I used to spend a fortune on photo processing, but I rarely print out my snaps now. Since most are for reference, there’s no need to.
Screaming funny:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-Shields-AttorneyLawyer/160617003995437
OMG, Colleen! That John Shields page is a hoot!
“To defend Legitomite Artists…”!!! LOL
There are spelling errors there that no real attorney would let pass. And why an attorney would think that readers would immediately connect “attorney” with a judge’s gavel is beyond me. And of course, an attorney in such matters would know he was in the area of Intellectual Property law and creators’ rights, and would say so. That pathetic “I’ve looked at his stuff, and it is homage, and you should stop picking on him you Blue Meanies” was hilarious.
I did a Google search for attorney + “John Shields”, and there are a handful of legit lawyers with that name, but none apparently into IP law and comics – other than this Facebook page one. I was surprised that it showed up on the top of the Google search, though. Which means either someone paid for that top spot (Seriously?!) or they planted links to it in thousands of places on the net (Someone’s sig on a message board somewhere, someone with a couple thousand posts?). That page was set up March 29 and this is April 8 – he hit the top of the Google results with that FB page in one week? Suspicious.
The John Shields sockpuppet was going around the net defending Granito with lots of capitalized words and bad grammar. It appears some wacky internet jokester is having a laugh setting up this page.
Works for me!
Ah! So it’s more mockity-mock-mock going on. Okay. That works for me too!
I love internet lawyers. They’re the bestest!
Scott Adams seems to be imitating Granito now, in that he’s using other aliases to go on different sites praising himself and attacking others: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110419/ts_yblog_thecutline/the-demotion-of-dilbert-continues-no-comic-relief-for-creator
This is just sad. While the art isn’t spectacular (though far better than me), I’ve enjoyed reading “Dilbert” since high school. As a techie and someone working in an office environment (with an officemate looking uncannily like Wally), the humor does work for me at times.
Though one shouldn’t let the writer/artist tarnish one’s enjoyment of the work, stuff like this makes it a bit tougher to do so.
Val sent some links about that story to me the other day, and I’d have blogged about it but for my lousy internet connection. I am having a terrible time getting online and staying on line these days. Oh, well, forces me away from web surfing.
That dude: he’s got the success thing going on, but wastes his time running around the internet posting wacky defenses of himself, praising his genius…WTF?
I’m sorry to publicly diss a fellow pro cartoonist, but in the spirit of creator fellowship…the narcissism…fix it.